強くね？

3次でガンスリンガー覚醒だな

３次して今トリプルファイアに振っています
スキルLV14[180%]となっていますが実際はスキルLV14[160%]でした(’-`

まだMAxまで振ってないのでわかんないですけど
210%であったほしいですね・・・orz

トリプルファイアのスキル表示は、レベル1のとき95%となっていました。
でも実際に使ってみると、このページの数値の方があってるようです。
これはネクソンのミスかと。
たぶん、レベル20だと表示は190%で、実際には210%になっていると思います。

効果に書いてる%は、弾一発ごとの威力じゃ
ないですよね？

210%って見ると強いと思いますが弓のストレイフは単発100%ｘ4で４００％でクリティカルが出ると、最高で８００％になります。　投げの場合ラッキーセブンは単発150%ｘ２で３００％クリティカルで６００％シャドパを使えば約３００％増えるので投げは最高９００％の攻撃ができます。こうしてみると投げ９００％＞弓８００％＞銃６３０％　やはり銃が弱くなっている；；

クリティ全部でるとかほとんどないだろ
弓は40%がクリティだから
0.6×0.6×0.6×0.6＝0.01296＝1.296%
100回に一回しかでないわけだ
投げはクリティ50%だから
0.5×0.5で25%
四回に一回は出るということ
確率で出す場合は確率をちゃんと考えないと火力は全然違う
ということは弓はだいたい確率を考えてだすと
10回ストレイフしたとしたら10×4で40発
そのうち40%はクリテ＝16発クリティ＝3200%+不発3200%＝6400%
これを10で割ると640%
つまり弓はストレイフでおよそ640%ということになる
投げは計算しやすい
300+150+150+75＝675
675%
結論からして
投げ>弓>銃の順番は変わらない
でも攻撃%ではほとんど変わらないということ
投げは全然安定しない
900%,675%,450%とすごい差がでる

唯一銃がいいのはスキルレベルが20というところだな
ストレイフとかシャドパーは30だから
早く効率あげられる

雑魚斬り賊さんのコメントはいつも勉強になります！
ダブルファイアの攻撃速度は、ブースタありで１分間に144回だそうです。
トリプルファイアはもっと遅いみたいですけど、時間あたりに与えられるダメージを考えても、やっぱり銃のほうが弱いのでしょうか；；

あと7レベルで三次するからそれまでまちなw
土日には三次いくつもりだからそれで攻撃速度みてみるよ
おそかったら泣けるが
まぁたとえよわくてもクーリングエフェクトがある以上黒字になりやすいだろうけどね

ここで3次銃登場
トリプルファイヤの攻撃速度は本当に遅いので注意。
ジャンプショットがスムーズにできないという･･･
だから3次までのピョンピョンジャンプしながらという狩り方は3次だと無理です＞＜
普通にうてばそれなりに早いですけど、やっぱり2次のダブルファイヤーと比べると歴然としてます(’A`

雑魚斬り賊ｓレベ上げはやっｗ
俺なんてまだ53レベだよorz

ｸｿｯ･･･｡Lv40の俺はどうすれば････どうすれば･･･うぅっ！orz

上でダメージ計算してるコメがあるが、計算が間違っているので修正。
攻撃速度については、俺が計測したものは－2回程度だったが、調べたものを利用している。

ストレイフ(ダメ100%*4発、クリティカル率40%,ダメ100%、攻撃速度86回/分)
平均ダメージ計算
ストレイフの基本ダメージ100%*4=400%
クリティカルのダメージ400%*0.4=160%(100%発動したものに40%(2/5)をかける)
400%+160%=560%([時計塔の鐘]参照) 560%*86=48160%/分

トリプルファイア(ダメ210%*3発、攻撃速度86回/分)
平均ダメージ計算
トリプルファイアの基本ダメージ210%*3=630%
630%*86=54180%/分

ラッキーセブン＋シャドーパートナー(150%*2、クリティカル率50%,ダメ100%、シャドパ本体の50%のダメ、攻撃速度100回/分)
平均ダメージ計算
クリティカル発生率50%(1/2)より、ラッキーセブン2発中1発発動と考える。
発動なし150%+シャドパ75%+発動250%+シャドパ125%=600%([牛タン炭火焼の道]参照)
600%*100=60000%/分

単体攻撃なら
投>銃>弓だ。

弓は基本レイン(イラプ)で狩るから単体はこんなものだろう。
投は3次時代ずば抜けて最強と言われていたくらいなのに、銃がそれより強かったら完全にゲームバランス崩れるからこんなものだろう。

オレも今lv６３だよ
でも今日明日INできないと思うから３次は
来週かな・・・

スキルの攻撃力はLv1で95%
2で100%
20で190%が正しいようです。
実際確認しました。

どうやらこれは表記だけのようでした((
実際はここにかいてあるのが正しいかと

投げのラッキーセブンは独自の計算式を持っているので、表記の％だけでは計れません。実際はもう少し高いですね。
トリプルファイアの表記と実際の攻撃力が違うということですが、恐らくいつか下方修正されると考えていいですね。
変えるつもりが無いならわざわざいじったりしませんから。

複数攻撃も投・弓に完全に劣ります。銃は何で対抗すればいいんでしょうかね。

ラッキーセブンの持っている独自の計算式は、ダメージ%に影響があるのではなく、基本攻撃力に影響する。
ステータス欄の基本攻撃力が最大(LUK*3.6+STR+DEX)/100*ATKなのに対し、ラッキーセブン（トリプルスロー）は(LUK*5.0)/100*ATKとなっている。
なので、この独自の基本攻撃力計算式の平均に600%をかけたのが投げの平均ダメージである。

トリプルファイアのダメージ表記が190%になっているのは、もともと190%だったものが210%に上方修正されたが、表記がまだ修正されていないためだと思われる。

レベル100の時点で遠距離三職を比べてみる（防具はなし。武器は銃30%*4,弓30%*4,投30%*2成功。Ｊたこ有)
分間の攻撃速度は4の倍数になるようなので、もう一度ストップウォッチで測定した結果、レイフ&TF84回/m、LS100回/mだった。

■レンジャー
武器　ATK115 DEX4　　ステSTR105 DEX416(412+4) INT4 LUK4
基本攻撃力最大 (416*3.4+105)*1.35=2051.19　最小(416*3.4*0.9*0.6+105)*1.35=1172.84　平均(2051.19+1172.84)/2=1612.01
一分間に与える平均ダメージ→1612.01*5.6*84=758289.504

■バイキング
武器　ATK94 DEX4　弾ATK18　　ステSTR100 DEX421(417+4) INT4 LUK4
基本攻撃力最大(421*3.6+100)*1.32=2132.59　最小(421*3.6*0.9*0.6+100)*1.32=1212.31　平均(2132.59+1212.31)/2=1672.45
一分間に与える平均ダメージ→1672.45*6.3*84=885060.54　　単発190%だった場合1672.45*5.7*84=800769.06

■ハーミット
武器　ATK56 LUK8　手裏剣ATK25　　ステSTR4 DEX140 INT4 LUK385(377+8)
基本攻撃力最大(385*5.0)*1.01=1944.25　最小(385*2.5)*1.01=972.12　平均(1944.25+972.12)/2=1458.18
一分間に与える平均ダメージ→1458.18*6.0*100=874908

バイキングをひいき目に強化した結果こうなった。
もしダメが210%だった場合、投げを超えることも可能というありえないことに。
190%だった場合、投げには劣るが、どっちにしても弓には勝る。
複数攻撃の場合、使い勝手からすると弓がもっとも使いやすい。

単体　銃>投>弓　　複数　弓>投>銃

と、するならバランスが取れているとは思う。

威力は210%でした。
攻撃最高1500のときダメージが3kいったので(単発)

これは早く3次しなければ(´Д｀；)
今60レベ、頭痛くなること多くなって
狩りに集中できんorz

ところで↑の計算クリティちゃんと入ってますか?
あと何のスキルでレベルいくつであるのかも必要です。
この計算からみるとクリティはいってないようにみえるんですが

レベル書いてあった(((
クリティもはいってた
わかりづらいな

追記
こういう火力差を求めるときは強化しないほうがいいです。

クリティカルなどの計算は>>１４のスキルダメージを求めるところでしているので、>>１９のところでは省いた。

武器を強化したのは、書の相場が違いすぎるため、同じ強化にした場合投げが有利だからである。
銃は出たばかりだから相場が安定していないのもあるが、実際には30%一枚差くらいが妥当。
しかし、投げが勝つつもりで計算していたため、投げの強化を多少弱めにした。

雑魚斬り賊ｓｲﾝﾋﾞｼﾌﾞﾙｼｮｯﾄとこれどちらがはやいんですかｗ？

インビジブルショットのほうが早い
ダメージの合計は最初はインビのほうが高い
一体に対してはTFのほうがつよい

ダメージが安定してるから、
いいんじゃない

ダメージはいいヶど
使いにくい
なぜかとゆうと
ジャンプしてあんま撃てない＞＜

撃ちやすくしてほしいはぁ；；

トリプルファイヤじゃなくてトライフルファイヤの気がします

トリプルファイヤでもトライフルファイヤでもなく、
トリプルファイアが正しいです。
いまだにまちがった名前のままのサイトもありますけど「気がします」じゃなくてちゃんと確認しようね。

1発70％の威力ですかね? だれか教えて!!

今までで複数攻撃あったが、ダブルスタブMAXで130%
一発70%だったら斬りの二次スキルサベッジスタブ(80%*6)より弱い
三次のスキルが二次に負けると思うか?

普通に考えて210%*3

あ　そだった　またまたありです　雑魚斬り賊sはすごい数の情報しってますねwwwww

やっぱり3次海賊は2次のスキルとくらべものにならないほど強いですねwww

うちにくいのかな？TF　
クーリングエフェクトと　　
TFどっち先にあげたほうがいいの？

主はトリプルファイアだからトリプルファイアを優先すると思う。クリーングは最初は火力が比較的にないのでトリプルでやればいいと思う　もちろんトリプルがあるていど強くなったらあげていけばいい　ガブアイオータやオクトパスにもSPを振ると狩り楽かも

とりあえずはじめて3次して、トリプルファイアに振ってみたけど、以外と硬直が長い・・・orz

ダブルファイアは『タンタン』って感じだけどトリプルファイアは『タン　タン　タン』って感じで・・・硬直が短ければ強いはずなんですが・・・・

なれればいんだ！
銃は最終的に卵を狩るんであんまジャンプしないから正直こんなもんでいいかと思う

ソロで卵とか眠いし((
銃じゃなくて今氷魔メインにやってるし((

てか氷魔メインとか嘘だし((

偽物・・・・？（よくわかんねぇわ

>>41
ついにぼろがでたのう
http://zaizen.aki.gs/cgi-bin/zaizen3/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=91#p21626
ここのコメントに俺が氷魔メインでゃってることがわかる
日付は最近だぜ?

どれが本物でどれが偽物とか正直どうでもいい

ここですることじゃねえ

これはいわゆるネクソンマジックですよね？
ＭＰ２２で、２１０％ってｗｗｗ

ほかの職と比べたりしたりしないで
こういうときだけ自信過剰で育てれば？

僕のともだちわ４５投げでラッキーを
単発2.8kとかほざいてたけど

同じぐらいのレベルの他の職なんてｼﾗﾈ(゜Δ゜)

TFが強いことには変わりないので(#^ω^)

これって投げのトリプルスローの一緒で3回攻撃みたいなもの？

3回攻撃ってことではトリプルスローの一緒ですね。トリプルファイアは「3回攻撃みたいなもの」ではないです
「ダブルファイア」を使うと3回攻撃になるパッシブスキルです。
ちなみにトリプルスローはアクティブスキルですよい

今回のパッチによりスキルレベル１だと９５％になりました。２０％くらいさがっとる・・・・
銃の火力をさげんなよ；

ジャンプ撃ちができないというが、　　　　　何のためにウィングスがあるんだよ。

まぁダブルファイアの時の連射の爽快感に比べると残念なとこもあるけど
ある程度ジャンプ力あれば移動打ちも苦じゃないよ？
あとウイングスは移動メインだけど前進or後退しながら打つ時は便利だね

ダメージ％高いのは銃には他の遠距離職と違ってクリティカルないからでしょ？
決して強すぎるわけではない

安定性だけなら抜群だと思いませんか。

TFの威力は表記ではLV1で95％ですが、実際115％でましたょ

いやNEXONの計算は簡単だと思うよ　　　　　　投げのクリティカルはそんな計算しなくても　50㌫なら二回に一回　弓使いの４０パーセントは５回に二回だよ

>わははははさん
どのコメントに対してのコメントですか。
計算機さんかな？
だったら数学の証明やったことあればどういうことかわかりますよね。
計算式は、いわば説明文。
意味がわからなければ、「そんなに計算しなくても」とか○○な発言しない方が自分のためです。

銃は３次の後半、つまりクーリングエフェクトが６体まで巻き込めるようになったらかなり変わりますよ。
でも卵しか狩らないからそんなに変わらないかもｗ

www＝(笑)　ですよー

　今６６　ガンですー
　
　どうも１日に１レベしか上がりません
　６５～ぐらいの狩場教えてくれると嬉しいですー
　あ
　友で根性だけで３次した奴がいるんですけど
　聞いてもデビクエとしかいってくれないんですー
　誰か教えてーーーーーー
　　教えてくれーーーーーーー【怒】

自分は今日3次しましたが、結局50～70までゴーレムのミニダンジョンでした。
TFがもう少し強くなるまでここで狩りますかねぇ。。

ダブルショット、トリプルショットの射程ってどのくらいなんでしょうかね？
ついでにラピッドの方も

少しやっただけですが、体感的に投げや弓より射程が短いような気がして･･･

すいません、ショットじゃなくてファイアです・・・

･･･何やってんでしょうかね?自分orz

表記まちがってますねｗ
２０で１９０％ですｗ

トリプルファイアということなので
190％×3
つまり190％の攻撃を3回繰り返すという
ことでよろしいのでしょうか？

実際の威力は１発２１０％で３回ダメージですよ。
過去コメに書いてありますけどね…

なんにせよ海賊3次は弱い
投げと弓、特に弓はレインが強すぎる
弓がレイン主に使って狩る高効率狩り場なぞ卵とボス程度。それにパペットがあるから狩りの自由度が違う。
敵な攻撃で一撃で死んでしまうHPのときにドドやリーリノフ、金禿、BGを狩れるのは弓しかいない
それに対し銃は複数の敵を相手にする場合凍らせてトリプルファイアで片付けるというパターンになる
俺は卵しかやらねぇというど根性ならいいのだか、卵はかなり飽きる…
4次のバトルシップに期待して、3次はただの通過点と考えた方がいい
現に3次スキルは4次スキルの前提でしかないんだから…

>66
レインでどうやったらボスと戦えますか？
なぜ3次の話題でドド等が出てきてるんでしょうか？
銃でもCE&FBで姫おいしいですが？
3次が通過点なのは弓投げも同じでは？

どっかにコメあったきがするので・・・
インビジブルショットとTFは同じ速度だよ

質問です！
TFはパッシブスキル(?)らしいのですが、3次スキルの使えないMC2でも使えますか？

答えてくれると嬉しいです！

７０になって１上げてもｍｃ２ではダブルファイアのままです。
同じくバルログ遠征でもダブルファイアに戻されます。

そもそもlv１のトリプルファイアよりlv２０のダブルファイアの方が強いので７０ですぐ上げるのはおすすめしませんよ。

返信ありがとうございます

最初はCF上げですかね？

最初からCEを上げて行っても苦しくなるかと思います。
銃の狩場はやはり卵が主になりますので。
理想は７２までSP貯めて一気にトリプルを上げることかと思います。

とは言え３次転職したら３次スキル覚えたいですからね。
カプセルお持ちならCEを25まで先にあげちゃうのもありかもしれません。
幽霊船やD子は狩りやすくなりますし卵は85からでも遅くないですから。
もしくは多少弱くなることも気にせずトリプルを上げて行くのもありかもですね。スキルに慣れるというのも大事なので。

あと他の方でホーミングを薦めてる方もいました。親分が狩りやすくなるとか。

最後に自分のおすすめはCEを先に上げることです。意外と攻撃範囲が広く、卵と違ってなかなか楽しい狩りができますよ。

長文失礼しました。

ありがとうございます！　

参考になりました！

最初にＣＥはあんまりオススメできません
なぜなら５体攻撃になるまでは、
あまり集め狩りにも、凍らせるのにも使えませんし、
それにＴＦ上げた方が狩りのスピードが上がります。

Ｔファイアで卵がりしてます
現在９０レベなんですが、
ダメージ1800～3000行きます
これｘ3発なので10ｋ行く時もたまにあります
それに近距離でも攻撃可能になったので
めちゃくちゃ使えます
ただ攻撃速度が遅すぎｗ
ビックバンイベントではやくなりませんかねー

ビッグバンでクリティカル追加。

ところで前レスしてる奴らホーミング入れてないだろ
安定性もダメージも単体最強ですよ

海賊はガンスリンガーだとDEX
が、２００レベルまでに、３００以上になるんだとか、、、そんなんで、トリプルファイヤー　やってたら　たまりません！！！

え、200ＬＶじゃなくても普通に育ててれば
ＤＥＸ4振りでも最低75Ｌｖ時点で300には行くはずですよ？
　
最終的にはＳＴＲは120、ＤＥＸは880までは
行くはずです。
　
じゃないと糞弱いですよ。

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